An interesting Honda-related discussion you won't find in the US

"duurtlang" (duurtlang) 10/23/2014 at 06:32 • Filed to: None

0

25

Rumor has it that Honda's going to discontinue the European Accord (Acura TSX in the US) without a replacement. In discussions I've read people comparing Honda lovers to Saab and Lancia lovers from a few years ago; while claiming to like the brands, nobody actually buys the cars, resulting in the death of these brands.

The article mentions the Honda Accord has seen sales drop 90% in the last decade, to a mere 4500 in 2013. For Europe as a whole. In my home country (the Netherlands) Honda sold an almost comical 42 Accords in 2013, it was outsold by the BMW 3-series 219:1 and outsold 187:1 by the Volvo V60 (this even excludes the S60).

One Belgian mentioned there's one other person in his town with a Honda Jazz (Fit) he's been seeing around. Recently he met this other driver, who noticed the same thing. The Belgian concludes that Hondas have become so rare they've become conversation starters.

Dutch source:

http://www.autoweek.nl/nieuws/30431/h…

GhostZ > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 06:44

0

Isn't it sort of a marketing decision for Honda to move out of the european market in search of greater margins in the US market, since they aren't really building euro-exclusive vehicles and basically just sending over the leftovers from the US?

Cé hé sin > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 06:51

0

Honda and Subaru share a marketing strategy: they don't want to sell in Europe. I do actually see Civics fairly often and they sell well enough to justify making them in the UK but Subaru are as near to dead as they can be.

duurtlang > GhostZ 10/23/2014 at 07:00

0

Who knows? They aren't just sending leftovers from the US though, consider the European Civic for example. Wagon and hatch only, no sedan. Do note that the European market is huge, at the very least comparable to the US market.

Having said that, Honda used to be big in Europe. In the 1980s and 1990s. They made vehicles people liked and as a result they reached rather significant market shares. Then, about 15 or so years ago Honda seemingly stopped caring, and as a result consumers stopped caring about Honda. In my own country Honda now has a market share of about 0.4%. 30 years ago, in 1984, this was close to 3%.

duurtlang > Cé hé sin 10/23/2014 at 07:04

0

I share you sentiment towards Subaru. I hardly ever see one, new or old, and their lineup offers nothing that's appealing to an average consumer shopping in a volume segment. Hence the smaller than 0.2% market share they've got here (the Netherlands). In a chart like this ( best selling brands in Europe, 2013 full year ) Subaru falls under the "other:0.7%" category.

Regarding Civics in the UK; I do believe you guys are a bit unique in that regard. I don't know why, but in the LHD part of Western Europe you hardly ever see a (post 1990s) Civic.

Jobjoris > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 07:10

0

The Dutch situation isn't really a situation typical for Europe. With the 'Bijtelling'-taxes based on CO-emissions the only viable Honda's were the small ones. There was no '20% or less' Accord, right? That's pretty obligatory when you want having it sold as a company car nowadays.

duurtlang > Jobjoris 10/23/2014 at 07:12

0

True, however this article mentions Europe as a whole. Sales of the Accord apparently dropped 90% in a decade for the whole continent. According to this Honda as a brand had a market share of 1.1% for the entire continent in 2013.

BATC42 > Cé hé sin 10/23/2014 at 07:33

0

I'm pretty sure I see more brand new Subarus (especialy Imprezas) than anaything from Honda, at least in France. And if you go near the Alps, Subarus are everywhere.

davedave1111 > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 07:35

0

The Accord was effectively discontinued in Europe years ago, when they stopped making a hatchback version. In general, though, I think Honda sales have slipped quite a bit from their peak, what with the Koreans and so-on also making decent, reliable appliances these days.

Still, I think the Jazz is due a refresh, and that's one of their bigger sellers. Not sure about the Civic, but possibly that too.

Jobjoris > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 07:49

0

True, but you mentioned the Dutch sales of the Accord and I can imagine these are even worse for Honda over here. Nevertheless: I don't think I will miss the current Accord. It's probably a good car but I would never trade it for my V60. Or a 3-series. Or a C-class. Not only due to the emission-based taxes.

Your comparison with Saab and Lancia is an accurate one I believe: I used to love them as well on to a certain point. Then 'something' in their line up went terribly wrong (replacement of 9-3 was needed very badly for Saab, re-badging that 300c and voyager for Lancia) and next thing you know: they're gone.

The last Accord I actually liked was that 7th generation (the 2003-2005 model) prior to it's face-lift. After that facelift the awesome looks were gone. Can't remember some kind of marketing of Honda to promote the accord so they probably don't believe in it over here themselves as well.

Let's hope Honda gets it's priorities set: an Awesome Civic (Type-R!), maybe decent replacement for the CRX, Integra and an NSX. But these last three will, due to their small numbers, not prevent Honda from either losing it's autonomous status or even getting extinct I'm afraid.

BATC42 > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 07:51

0

I just checked. In September of 2014, Honda sold 567 cars in France and around 15800 in Europe. In the meantime Suzuki sold 1266 cars in France and 17200 in Europe.

For the month of September only, Honda's registration dropped by 20% year over year.

In September the biggest sellers were, in France, Renault (33,176), Peugeot (26 970) and Citroën (19,285). In Europe it was Volkswagen (142,171 cars), Ford (101,399) and Opel/Vauxhall (91,989).

The French CCFA (French manufacturers association) has some nice data (I took the numbers from them) : http://www.ccfa.fr/Immatriculatio…

Delusion77 > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 08:21

1

Viewing this as a canadian is really strange haha

GhostZ > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 08:22

0

And honda's market share in the US has about doubled (6-12%) in just the last 15 years, which is really my point. I think they're just not investing the money to increase their european share in their efforts to take as large share of the US market as possible.

Klaus Schmoll > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 08:37

0

I haz a sad. But come to think of it, this doesn't bode well for used Accord prices. So once I've worn and torn mine through, I can get a newer one for cheap? Yeeeesssss!

duurtlang > Delusion77 10/23/2014 at 09:00

0

I know. That was my point.

duurtlang > GhostZ 10/23/2014 at 09:04

0

Why not both? Toyota, as an example, is still doing well in Europe. Probably because they did invest more to meet the demands of the market. I can understand why a new (to a specific market) player chooses to ignore one and focus on the other. But Honda was an established brand already.

Cé hé sin > Delusion77 10/23/2014 at 09:08

0

You must find Subaru's predicament even stranger then.

Cé hé sin > GhostZ 10/23/2014 at 09:16

1

Not necessarily, it might just be poor decision making. They've recently gone to the considerable expense of designing a new 1.6 litre diesel which they only need in Europe and they wouldn't have done this had they been prepared to walk away.

rodassecondo > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 09:41

0

In Portugal, the first generation Accord with the diesel sold quite well, but the recent ones are quite rare. The jazz will never match a clio or polo in numbers ( no diesel ) but i see lots of them and is very respected 2nd hand. The diesel civic 1.6 i think is selling ok. Honda is really not dead over here.

Volvo on the other hand... and mazda is really bad. I did not yet see a 6. And the 3 is 1.5 petrol... oh, oh....

duurtlang > rodassecondo 10/23/2014 at 09:45

0

Volvo is doing poorly in Portugal? I'm seeing a lot of new V40s and V60s.

rodassecondo > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 10:52

0

No hard figures, but i dont see them. They have a small d3 for aprox 25, but people just buy meganes golfs or focus, or go premium.

Cé hé sin > duurtlang 10/23/2014 at 10:53

0

They tend not to sell well in the more southern countries, a trend which seems to go both ways with the Scandinavians not showing any great interest in Fiats and Renaults

Delusion77 > Cé hé sin 10/24/2014 at 01:22

0

thats for sure. Subaru is selling more and more (new and used) Idlike one myself!

Cé hé sin > Delusion77 10/24/2014 at 04:50

0

I've just looked at the first nine month's statistics here in Ireland. Subaru are at 0.16% and are outsold about 4 to 1 by Suzuki. Honda are at the dizzy heights of 1.42% which is one of their higher percentages in the EU. Other makes we avoid include Chrysler (0.02%), Lexus (0.36%) and Mini (0.47%). Between them the three mainstream VW brands have 23%.

Delusion77 > Cé hé sin 10/26/2014 at 12:38

0

Thats really interesting. Suzuki pulled out of the north american market recently. Its crazy how different the market is between continents

Cé hé sin > Delusion77 10/26/2014 at 14:20

1

Not just between continents. You'd expect Ireland and the UK to have similar buying patterns, being neighbours and rhd and so on. Not a bit of it. The UK buys proportionally more Fords and Nissans and less VWs, Ireland buys more Toyotas, Hyundais and Renaults. Both share a loathing of Subaru.